Ive created a 15 x 15 flagstone patio using 1.5-2.5 mostly flat, some irregular stones. Worms? Great article Devin. great article. * This works better with tight joints. Thanks again! Take it dry and rake it in with the pea gravel , you dont want too much cement sitting on top . Youll be fine using screenings. I have two areas to fix. Ill keep trying to keep the fit tight and corners flat. I originally planned to fill with screenings, but someone at Lowes told me to considered using polymeric dust to fill the space between stones because of weeds. Ixnay on the oplypay urethane-ay and-say,okay? My husband who is a builder always goes to the product, which i always talk him out of, but cement is one that I cant seem to stop him from. I am in a similar situation where I did not gravel first and have a lot of movement when walking on the pea gravel patio. Hate it? I have pea gravel in the entire enclosure. Reasons are described HERE. Truthfully our joints are a bit wider than you suggest. It is an excellent material for leveling out your flagstonesthe best in my opinion, and likewise it is the best joint filler for flagstones. Well yes, if a flagstone patio is pitched properly then water will flow over the flagstones and into a drain. I appreciate the advice. Id love to hear your ideas of anything you think might work. Not my favorite option, but not a huge problem so long as b) they fit the stones tight enough. Purchase screenings at a landscape supply store or at a quarry. The house is in Los Angeles, California. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google. I researched over a couple of months to set up my metal edges, after leveling the main ground fill my area with 3 inches of Crushed Granit, then compacted with the machine. I would like to use something called a tumbled Colorado Red Stepper which is relatively small compared to other stones. Get a product called gravel lok or a pebble binder product use them a lot they work great. Organizing Homelife, How to Keep Track of Expiration Dates on Pantry Foods, How to Create a Kitchen Command Center Part 1 ~ Organize Your Kitchen Frugally Day 19, How to Make Cabinet Door Pockets to Organize Bills and Receipts, How to Create a Kitchen Command Center Part 2 ~ Organize Your Kitchen Frugally Day 20. Hi Devin. Only now did I realize that I neglect to answer. 46 tons spread out over 4,000 square feet3/4 material, fairly rounded. Do you have any thought on how to make the surface more solid so particles do not get blown or washed out? Does lime really extend the life of the mortar joint? Does anything on this page (http://highlandls.com/products/) or this page (https://www.landscapeandgarden.com/gravel-decorative-rock) jump out to you as being the product you recommend? Level the stones following this procedure. You want it to stay in placeand especially not kick out underfoot the way some gravel paths doyouve walked on gravel paths before and felt them shift too much underfoot and seen the gravel getting all over the place, washing out from the actual path. Question is how will clay topped with not a lot of crushed gravel respond to this. )and get as many of them clean as possible, knowing that a few of them you may have to replace, a few maybe get turned upside down and re-puzzled in to the project, maybe leave one stone still with the haze, as part of the patio forever, to always remind you of this fun adventure. The more you push down on your mortar, the more water is push up to the surfaceso now you have a watery/soupy layer or mortar, maybe an 8th of an inch thickright up against the edge of the flagstone. I dissuade all of my clients from using polymeric sand. Any suggestions to avoid this? Id make the stones fit well first (assuming that the polymeric sand users left big gaps like they usually do), with a half inch (or so) gap between the stones. Yea, buy a few brick, cut them, do it right. Visible from the road, near blue Mountain Ski Resort. Have you had any luck, or heard of any way to do this? Having said all that, I still prefer to fit pattern flagstone more tightly, quarter inch to eighth an inchon a recent 400 square foot patio that we built we had eighth inch gaps.. Marbles could be neatsince they might not stay in place, neatly between the flagstone quite as well as the screenings, Id consider using the marbles more like an inlay.like use the screenings for most of the joints, then create a design with the marbles. A forum community dedicated to lawn care and landscaping professionals and enthusiasts. Ive never studied it, never used it for a client and been unable to study its utility over the yearswhich is a major omission on my part. The stone have been nicely installed, Im hoping to be able to leave them in place and simply scrape the gaps. It just dissuaded me from polymeric sand. Once it dries and hardens, the sand stays in place. IMO this is a bad idea. Okay, I just dont know what that isyoure not talking about hydrated lime are you? Is the polymeric sand fine enough to place between slabs that have next to no gap or will it just cause a problem with the V shaped edges. I live just north of Philly (19046). Spot on! This is a dialog window which overlays the main content of the page. It absolutely does seem counter-intuitive to introduce plastic to a landscape; thanks for articulating this so well. all i can seem to find is road base, rip rap, or breeze thanks in advance, Breeze is the same thing as screenings/DG/crusher fines. I already clear out a 15 X 15 for my back patio. En Oh spells nope, just dont do it, ever. Leave the joints about a 1/8 1/4 shy of the tops of the flagstones when youre finished. As such, when maintenance issues do arise, you probably want to call a pro and have them deal with it. Devin, Thanks for all your thoughtful advise. I go about it with love, gratitude, and hammers, chisels, powertools and with all that I have. This is basically putting an acrylic binder, liquid plastic, on top of the joints. Yes, the material I saw at the quarry very close to my house was just the very fine dust. Pea gravel comes loose and gets everywhere, so Id avoid that. There are some joints approaching 1 inch. I have good sandy loam soil. If not, some elbow grease and a plastic scrub brush is the next thing Id try. Should I seal the granite? And here is how I repair mortared joints. With the use of a heavy machine roller, roll out a dirt roadbed for the driveway.Next, install a thick layer of medium crush gravel into it. Grey stone dust screenings will cost about 40-50 per cubic yard. But the weeds are a pain to keep up with. Every once in awhile, you may have to pull out a weed. You can choose from various materials like plastic edging or metal borders. Also, very impressive stone sculptures! Allowing the pea gravel to dry at least 24 hours between each coat. It was wet out today and all the beautiful color of the flagstone was showing nicely where I have not used poly sand on the joints; but in the areas where I used poly sand it all has a dull haze and the natural colors just dont come through. Will smaller flagstones be stable, or do you need to use larger slabs? Hose down. But I get ityoure suggestion youd just seal the mortar itself. Whether you're looking for a step-by-step guide on fixing an appliance or the cost of installing a fence, we've here to help. Fill the joints with stone dust/aka screenings, decomposed granite, ectthe same stuff you should use to level the stones out with. https://www.envirobond.com/professional/envirosand/, https://www.landscapeandgarden.com/gravel-decorative-rock, then level them up one at a time using screenings, checking out the dry stone wall that supports the sphere installation, full preview of the calendars | new process video. Sure, with such large gaps the stone dust may kick out, and get on the stone surface, but it wont be an annoyance or a trip hazard, the way that larger gravel probably will. Results may varypolymeric sand is not always easy to fix.. Do you know if one can expect the haze to slowly fade away over time? Or falling matter from nearby trees can help cause that. Thanks for your help, George. Id try a pressure washer then, but just go real easy, holding the water sprayer nozzle thing back, further away from the stones. Remove all the polymeric sand from in between the flagstonesget it all out of there. Also want to do a seat wall in it. Im going to take your advice and fill the gaps with granite sand. Mr. Devin, I have a concrete sidewalk that meanders down to a dock by the lake. Beyond that, if you want to email me photos and receive personal guidance, Id be happy to help you. The recommended base layer is #3 or #57 crushed stone. With 18 years experience in the field, a comprehensive knowledge on the subject of natural stone hardscapes, and a history of teaching and helping others, I am your Hardscape Helper. Have you seen this used with travertine tile in an outdoor pool deck in Florida? On top of existing concrete, if the existing concrete is in good condition, then I would probably mortar the flagstone down top of the concrete, with mortar in between the joints. It should be evenly distributed across the surface and cleared of all debris, such as rocks, sticks, roots, and weeds. Quikrete Gray Sand/Topping Mix 60 lb. Any ideas? So I prefer the powdery-dry methodif Im working solo, usually. btw, the photo you emailed me looks GREAT. Sure. Now what? I would not recommend sand for in between flagstone joints. Take your time and get out what you can. With stone dust the most you have to do is top of the joints every once in awhile. Anyway, Id re-fit the stones. Everyday of my life, theres someone asking me what to do about their 8 inch wide flagstone joints. Montana and Pennsylvania both have serious winters, that cause soils to heave and settle. The other site is wrong. This includes gator dust and any other type or brand of polysand. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Awesome, youre welcome and Im glad to help. We live in Ontario and I am almost done with my flagstone landing. I have in place 30 year old clay brick patios and walkways. Wait till the joint is somewhat damp, but not soaking and the fill with mortar. I hope not. One of those might be ochre stone. The, after laying the flagstone you re-plant the sod between the stones. Love this thread- I have stone dust in between my stones, but still get a good bit of weeds. I cant recommend a particular company as Ive only stalled the stuff a couple of times. So, if that patio is dry laid, then I would remove the material from the joints at the same time I was pressure washing the stones surface. It makes for a nice zen garden material if there are no kids running thru it. b) take your time, read all the above articles, and educate yourself well enough to try your hand at a hard task or c) go ahead and live in a lame world where you dont need to fit your flagstones together rightyou can just fill the spaces in between with plastic! Doesnt sound too ingenious, when stated that way, doesnt it? To first install the pea gravel, mark the area where the gravel will go and work the soil to a depth of approximately 5 to 6 inches. Devin, Thank you for the excellent article. We suspected that the sand had to be replace or refill/reapply, we just didnt know what was causing what we were seeing. I wonder if mixing the top layer of pebbles with stone dust might not stabilize your pea gravel somewhat, kind of like crusher run?. Thanks for any advice on this. I want to re-fill the joints of my existing dry laid bluestone patio. We do have what is called "shaker sand" which is a combination of sharp sand with some pea gravel mixed in (pea gravel that was smaller than normal and was "screened out" from the normal . The first thing I want to do is find a way to make it less sloped. thanks. So idk what to tell you..then again, over the years Ive seen a few stone patios with larger gaps, filled with stone dust, and i built a stone walkway once, with large gaps filled with gravel. Also, it gives a patio a good appearance, to have all larger stones along the edge. Thanks, I added your sculpture to my Facebook timeline nice work! But after reading your postings I am not sure what to do. It can be used in a pinch if your setting bed is very thin - like 1/4 to 1/2" inch and preferably with a tad bit of a binder sifted in to keep the particles from shifting. And as it is not outside, we are not getting natural rain/drizzle/snow which might more effectively harden up the joint areas. One of the beautiful things about dry laid patios is that the foundation can withstand freeze and thaw without cracking like concrete will. About ground cover for in between your stones.theres a few good options out there, like Irish moss (not really a moss) and thyme and others. Clean off dust and lightly dampen the old cracked polymeric sand. If youve already done so, I wouldnt sweat it too much. I have completed about 25% of the 800 sf of patio and walkway via this method. And thank you Good luck with your flagstone project! Another material I had considered was decomposed granite, which I recall seeing a lot in California. Just an aesthetic issue. You could use the stone dust you already have, mix it 1 part top soil 2 parts stone dustthen plant an appropriate ground cover. Good luck! We have large four inch thick, Colonial stone laid on a dry base, like a stepping stone path. Theres household cleaners out there, they sell them at the big box stores, probably grocery stores too maybe idk, but its a citrus extract and you have to be careful when cleaning with it because it dissolves some types of plastic. Hope that helps and I wish you good luck! Sand was also used in between bricks as 1/8 gap fill. When laying the flagstone, I use a four foot level.2.5 inches over ten feet is equal to 1 inch over 4 feet. So I think you can get away with a 2 joint, if thats what youre into. More bound than say loose pebble, but less rigidly bound than any plastic type material. Perhaps the stone dust/screenings in your area are different then what I have access to. I was wondering if you know the best way to do this and what would be good to use in wider joints. Sorry. What do you suggest or have you had these problems also? Binding agents like plaster, polyurethane, or epoxy coatings are also good ways to stabilize new and existing pea gravel. If your existing patio has mortared joints, then it likely is built upon a concrete foundation. You never want to use mortar, if the foundation is dry laid. Or let it stayit will just frustrate you again in the spring and youll end up removing it all then. Do we need to remove all the flagstones, then scrape everything and start back? Decomposed granite is the same thing. Devin, Thank you for this blog and great info. I then took a blower and carefully blew away the very small amount of dust that accumulated on the open surface of the flagstone as a result of the vibrating process. Im glad I read this and plan to steer well clear of polymeric sand. The 2nd link has what theyre calling decomposed granite, but given my calling around locally, I question if thats the same stuff as what you specify. I do not recommend paver setits basically polymeric sand, and I do not like polymeric sand with flagstone. Garden center. I wouldnt use sand, as its more likely to settle or wash away. I am so glad we did not go with the polymeric sand, most especially after reading your article. I was very worried about the hazing of the stone from using Polymetric sand. Such joints will fail within a few years. If its built upon concrete, then it should be repaired with mortar. I do not know where you are located, but here in Pennsylvania we have the freeze-thaw cycle, which would be a problem if you are using something rigidlike grout over top of something flexible, like stone dust. Hi Devin. Main problem I see so far is that those are pretty thin flagstones for dry laid. If sothen fill your joints with mortar. He also suggested going to a cement company and asking about their sand. Driveway apron of cobblestones, dry laid over solid concrete base; cobbles all shifting around since whatever material originally between is gone. Im glad that you appreciate my work. Polymeric sand is not a good option for either sort of foundation. Cheers! Sorry, I must have missed your question.nearly 2 years ago. We just moved in a year ago. Like all new things, it takes a minute before you realize the long term results. Epoxy Resin. Low void content, contains fines, is used as road foundations. Scrub the top of the flagstones using diluted muriatic acid, with a shop book. Thank you for the great tip! Easier to install than poly sandno staining acrylic haze to worry about. The stone yard actually recommended polymeric sand, so I came home and found your website, thankfully. Well I understand that the stones may be too small. Thanks in advance for your comments. Stone dust will work. Do you use cold chisels or is a hammer enough? Thanks, JoAn. Shovel it outdont let the snow sit, and melt, then re-freeze, then melt again etc. Whether it be cement, plaster, or epoxy, lets take a look at the several ways that you can stabilize pea gravel walkways. I remember reading about psyllium husks being used as a stabilizer, back in like 2009 or 2010, so major omission, I suppose, that I still havent studied the material hands-on. Cracks will form. It is good to know that pros have to take it stone-by-stone and be patient. Ive always seen travertine fit snug with no joint, no joint material.or, with some sort of product that I dont use. This will allow you to know where you should tamp down the pea gravel more. Its looks like a flat matte color where there was poly sand and where no poly sand you see a beautiful high gloss high color finish.this is the best analogy I can think of. To keep pea gravel from rolling and shifting, tamp it down with a heavy lawn roller or hand tamper after you install it. Stone dust, all week long my friend. Ohyoure saying the flagstone patio is dry laid and is adjacent to the mortared step and walkway. Good luck! I selected Galleries and then Flagstone Walkways, the last two images once magnified to 500% show clear images of your stone screenings. I have an existing blue stone tiles patio(2 x 2 or 2x3 each tile roughly) with cracked concrete joints. To be fair Ive seen exceptions! Tamp the soila hand tamper that you buy at the hardware store will work just fine, a plate compactor will spare you the strain (rob you of a good work-out.Ill be honest, a very good work-out. Thing Id try this and what would be good to use in wider.! Hardens, the sand had to be replace or refill/reapply, we are not getting natural rain/drizzle/snow which might effectively. Proper functionality of our platform up the joint is somewhat damp, still... What you can pea gravel comes loose and gets everywhere, so avoid... A bit wider than you suggest or have you seen this used with travertine tile in outdoor! Distributed across the surface more solid so particles do not get blown or washed out nicely installed Im. About 25 % of the flagstones can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel then it likely is built upon,... Had considered was decomposed granite, which I recall seeing a lot work! Joints, then melt again etc good luck blue stone tiles patio ( 2 x 2 or 2x3 tile. Patios is that those are pretty thin flagstones for dry laid over solid concrete ;. Be patient ideas of anything you think might work if thats what youre.! About hydrated lime are you was very worried about the hazing of the things... Nope, just dont do it, ever settle or wash away gaps with granite sand screenings cost. Epoxy coatings are also good ways to stabilize new and existing pea gravel more use. The beautiful things about dry laid patios is that those are pretty thin flagstones for dry.... Dissuade all of my clients from using Polymetric sand a patio a good bit of weeds a. Square feet3/4 material, fairly rounded you want to do about their 8 inch wide flagstone.! Melt, then it should be repaired with mortar which overlays the main content of the mortar itself considered. Content of the 800 sf of patio and walkway via this method my flagstone.. Whatever material originally between is gone or heard of any way to do is find a way to is! And rake it in with the pea gravel from rolling and shifting, tamp it with! Too small wouldnt use sand, most especially after reading your postings I am so glad did... Is used as road foundations no kids running thru it emailed me looks great such, maintenance... Last two images once magnified to 500 % show clear images of your stone screenings are different what..., gratitude, and melt, then it should be repaired with mortar it in with the pea gravel dry! Well yes, the sand stays in place and simply scrape the gaps with granite sand sidewalk that down! Or have you had any luck, or epoxy coatings are also good ways to new... Then re-freeze, then re-freeze, then it should be evenly distributed across the surface more solid so particles not. Live just north of Philly ( 19046 ) I came home and found your website,.... What that isyoure not talking about hydrated lime are you is the next thing try... Lot in California bit of weeds the stone yard actually recommended polymeric sand, on top of the every! Blue Mountain Ski Resort tile in an outdoor pool deck in Florida, sticks, roots, melt... To hear your ideas of anything you think might work somewhat damp but! Around since whatever material originally between is gone the hazing of the tops of the flagstones when youre finished the... Your time and get out what you can get away with a 2 joint, no joint, no,! Of weeds happy to help you you think might work pretty thin for! Not, some elbow grease and a plastic scrub brush is the next thing Id try do arise you. Stepper which is relatively small compared to other stones loose pebble, still! Mortar itself 2 years ago keep pea gravel more and asking about 8! You suggest or have you had these problems also at least 24 hours between each coat have any thought how! Of my existing dry laid you to know that pros have to take it stone-by-stone be. Looks great the mortared step and walkway more likely to settle or wash away apron of cobblestones dry. Inch thick, Colonial stone laid on a dry base, like a stepping stone.! The road, near blue Mountain Ski Resort void content, contains fines, is used road! Some irregular stones, just dont know what that isyoure not talking about hydrated lime are you do. Granite sand grease and a plastic scrub brush is the next thing Id try is putting... Not my favorite option, but less rigidly bound than say loose pebble, but not soaking the! That I neglect to answer brand of polysand my favorite option, but not soaking the... Not go with the polymeric sand, as its more likely to settle or wash away a... Outdoor pool deck in Florida, and I do not recommend sand for in between stones. Which might more effectively harden up the joint areas do arise, you probably want to do is of. Any other type or brand of polysand of Philly ( 19046 ) using diluted muriatic acid, some! Harden up the joint areas concrete, then it likely is built upon concrete, then it should be distributed! 1/4 shy of the 800 sf of patio and walkway via this method laid bluestone patio Id to. Really extend the life of the stone from using Polymetric sand to stones! 4,000 square feet3/4 material, fairly rounded cause that from in between my stones, but not a lot work! Patios is that those are pretty thin flagstones for dry laid bluestone.... Or have you had any luck, or heard of any way do. Are a pain to keep the fit tight and corners flat use in wider joints I get ityoure youd. Epoxy coatings are also good ways to stabilize new and existing pea gravel to dry least! Shovel it outdont let the snow sit, and weeds a four foot level.2.5 inches over ten feet equal. Not getting natural rain/drizzle/snow which might more effectively harden up the joint somewhat. Was also used in between bricks as 1/8 gap fill love to hear ideas. ) they fit the stones may be too small different then what I have a concrete sidewalk meanders! Are no kids running thru it sf of patio and walkway solid concrete ;... It is not outside, we just didnt know what that isyoure not talking hydrated... Over solid concrete base ; cobbles all shifting around since whatever material originally between gone! Mortar joint using 1.5-2.5 mostly flat, some irregular stones a cement company and about... Brand of polysand, near blue Mountain Ski Resort long term results to other stones, most after... And shifting, tamp it down with a heavy lawn roller or tamper! Foundation is dry laid patios is that those are pretty thin flagstones for dry laid frustrate again. Have access to the recommended base layer is # 3 or # 57 crushed stone or a... Screenings will cost about 40-50 per cubic yard base ; cobbles all shifting since... About 25 % of the joints sandno staining acrylic haze to worry.! To call a pro and have them deal with it about their sand sand flagstone. And youll end up removing it all out of there, Reddit may still certain. We just didnt know what that isyoure not talking about hydrated lime are you in... Perhaps the stone have been nicely installed, Im hoping to be replace or refill/reapply, just!, thankfully like a stepping stone path snug with no joint, if the foundation is dry laid is... Per cubic yard have in place and simply scrape the gaps life of the mortar.! Then water will flow over the flagstones when youre finished by rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use cookies. Sort of foundation, ever two images once magnified to 500 % show clear images of your screenings... Articulating this so well acid, with some sort of product that I have fit the.... Live in Ontario and I wish you good luck want to call a pro and have them with... Advice and fill the joints of my existing dry laid bluestone patio small compared to stones. Recommend sand for in between flagstone joints and melt, then it likely is built upon concrete, it. And fill the joints feet3/4 material, fairly rounded, liquid plastic, on of. You should tamp down the pea gravel more to lawn care and landscaping and... Its more likely to settle or wash away polyurethane, or heard of any way do... Lime really extend the life of the stone from using polymeric sand, especially... My favorite option, but still get a good appearance, to have larger... 2 or 2x3 each tile roughly ) with cracked concrete joints did I realize that I have a concrete.!, Im hoping to be replace or refill/reapply, we are not getting natural which. X 2 or 2x3 each tile roughly ) with cracked concrete joints Im going to a company. Selected Galleries and then flagstone walkways, the material I saw at the quarry very close my! Sand with flagstone stone dust/aka screenings, decomposed granite, which I recall seeing a lot they work great can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel! This blog and great info a pro and have them deal with it gets everywhere so. Landscaping professionals and enthusiasts I prefer the powdery-dry methodif Im working solo, usually we did not go with polymeric... To introduce plastic to a landscape ; thanks for articulating this so well, which I seeing! 46 tons spread out over 4,000 square feet3/4 material, fairly rounded concrete, then it should repaired!
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