Hence, be prepared to go into details and to explain the options you had, the decisions you made (and why), what was difficult, what did you enjoy the most, etc. He is the highest-rated McKinsey Case and PEI coach on PrepLounge with 850+ meetings in 2021 and 2022 and a 100% recommendation rate. The whole process usually takes 2-3 months to complete, for a job starting about 6-12 months after application. These interviews are usually conducted by non-partner level consultants (senior associates to associate principles), however, they are no less challenging than second-round interviews, which are conducted by partners. For instance, if you rock the Business Cases in the first round, most of the focus will be on the Personal Fit. Dont dwell on the question of the blacklist, but remember competition is tough. Of course, say a few words about your studies and work experience, but also say what you are passionate about and what you want to achieve in life. Learn how to correctly prepare and structure your McKinsey PEI. Besides, you will have to derive insights from these data, and connectthese insights to your clients problem. As former McKinsey consultants and interview experts, we have specialized in helping our candidates to effectively tackle this part of the McKinsey assessment. Ask questions about their background and their current work that really. This is not required to get a McKinsey interview. Include meaningful work experience. We are consistently ranked as the best McKinsey and MBB coaches on PrepLounge. Youll want to tell your story or give your example using the STAR method. There are no knockout factors, and you need not be distinctive on every dimension. The McKinsey interviews are one of the most challenging job interviews out there. The main distinction is that case interviews for the McKinsey Implementation Group may be more focused on execution, implementation, marketing, sales, or operations. Read more here: Do you have any questions about the process? McKinsey & Company interview details: 4,875 interview questions and 4,594 interview reviews posted anonymously by McKinsey & Company interview candidates. Regarding the time you need to be ready? And the McKinsey recruitment process is one of the most selective as well: only 1% of the 200,000 applicants receive an offer. First, there's a role simulation in which they demonstrate their decision-making and communication skills. Joining us means youll have unparalleled opportunities to learn and grow. Keep this section as concise as possible to make more room for the Action and Result sections, which is where you want to spend most of your time. Only full-time candidates will have to go through second-round interviews. However, the overall components in the process are roughly the same. *Please note, not all interviews at McKinsey require a case study or follow this format. Secondly, your interviewer will ask you a set of pre-determined questions, regardless of what your initial structure is. Read this comprehensive consulting resume guide to understand what McKinsey resume reviewers look for when screening resumes and how to optimize your resume to give yourself the best chance of receiving an interview. 1. McKinsey & Company is genuinely interested in your questions. The McKinsey PST lets recruiters only see answers, not how they were arrived at. One important difference is that very often instead of the exhibit exercise and question, candidates are asked to conduct some sort of estimation in the case context (e.g. You can expect the PEI to last between 20 and 40 minutes. During many of our interviews, you will learn more about what this value means in practice at McKinsey. Our assessment tests focus on job-related knowledge or abilities, such as problem-solving or coding skills. Many people that dont receive invites for these exclusive events still receive McKinsey interviews and offers. You can watch the video below for an example of how to solve a McKinsey case interview. Final round interviews will also continue to assess this, but interviewers will also be determining whether or not you would be a great fit with the office. Due to COVID, in some offices, McKinsey has introduced a phone pre-screening interview conducted by HR. The interview for consulting roles with McKinsey Digital is structurally exactly the same as for generalist positions. We'll go through each step in the interview process so you know exactly what to expect. The McKinsey PEI is different from other consulting firms' behavioral interviews in 2 ways: The McKinsey personal experience interview question is part of every interview. Include entrepreneurship examples. You will need to talk about some situations you experienced in your life (private or professional), which correspond to McKinseys personal fit dimensions (one dimension per interview). Interviewers know that the candidates who are most likely to be their top performers will be the people who love the company's culture, people, and projects. At McKinsey, we help tackle the worlds most important problems, while providing our people with unrivaled professional development experiences. At McKinsey, we help our clients tackle the worlds most important problems, while providing our people with unrivaled professional development experiences. Approaches may vary by location. They will want to know exactly what you did, how you thought about the situation, why you did the things that you did, and what you learned from the situation. After finishing your final round interview, all you have left to do is to wait for your McKinsey offer. Competition is strong. McKinsey has become aware of scams involving false offers of McKinsey employment. After an initial phone interview, executive assistant (EA) candidates participate in Experience Day. If you're applying for these roles, the interview process includes: The Quanthub prescreening test, Most candidates hear back within 2 weeks, however, sometimes it can take up to one month. The McKinsey Personal Fit or Personal Experience Interview (PEI) is a situation-based interview. Since much fewer people tend to show up to these events early, there will be fewer people around. It spans a wide range of potential evaluations such as coding tests and project discussions with product engineers, portfolio reviews with other designers, or discussions about coaching and agile methodologies with agile coaches. We have compiled this document by talking to more than 280 test-takers as well as game design experts. The case interview may feel more like a discussion where you and the interviewer are discussing your opinions and ideas on a business problem. Mention the McKinsey representatives that you have spoken to and what aspects of McKinsey you find most attractive. Thanks admin for sharing this informative post. Previous recruiting cycles played the game to determine if it accurately predicted interview outcomes, but game results did not impact candidate progression. We suggest that you prepare two personal examples to demonstrate your skills in the areas highlighted below. Over the last 18 months, he has helped more than 120 clients get an offer with McKinsey through direct coaching. It only guarantees that your application will be reviewed more closely. To prepare for our problem solving discussion we encourage you to use the sample cases below, which contain the logic, thought processes and recommended answers. If you are an undergraduate student, it is likely that you will have to take one of the McKinsey problem-solving tests (PST or Imbellus) before, maybe, being invited to interviews. The selection process is divided into screening and interviews. Third round: Two to three 60-minute interviews with more senior consultants and partners. New offices with higher HR demands and staffing shortages can be less clear-cut, but generally faster. Since your school is not a school that McKinsey targets, McKinsey recruiters spend much less time looking at applications from your school. estimate the number of ambulances in the particular country or the cost of Boeing 777, etc.). The best strategy for networking during information sessions is to show up early. Highlight distinctive awards, honors and fellowships. The material in the course has helped 6,000+ students across 13+ countries land offers at top-tier consulting firms such as McKinsey, BCG, and Bain. The McKinsey Problem-Solving Test (or McKinsey PST) tests your ability to complete these tasks well. You have to answer 26 questions in 1 hour. We encourage you to add all of these experiences to your CV or resume. Although McKinsey hires people from nontraditional backgrounds, you will need to do the work needed to get your name and resume in front of recruiters through networking or referrals. What do you need to do to put yourself in the 1% of applicants that land a McKinsey job offer? Getting a McKinsey referral basically means that someone at McKinsey will send your name and resume to the McKinsey recruiter that is in charge of the resume reviews. Our Update History for Mckinsey and Company. It can see the path the candidate took and the information used to make a decision. supply chain, product development, service operations). For instance, if you do not pass the interviews, consulting firms will request you wait 12-18 months until you reapply. This will most likely be the office that you will be interviewing for. This helps them understand how you structure tough, ambiguous business challenges, identify important issues, deal with all the implications of facts and data, formulate conclusions and recommendations, and articulate your thoughts in a fast-moving discussion. To help you and other candidates meet baseline expectations, McKinsey provides these resources to candidates: Depending on the candidate, recruiters may offer additional coaching sessions with current McKinsey consultants. Result: Describe the outcome that your actions had, quantifying the impact and effect you had on the organization. We are interested in all academic and non-academic achievements from the recent past, Consider including interests outside of academics. To conclude, you now have a better understanding of the essentials of the McKinsey interview process. Instead focus on practicing the types of questions we discussed above (structuring, exhibit analysis, math) only after you have mastered those, you can focus on specific industries or functions in your preparation. However, you should always confirm with the recruiter whether or not you will need a cover letter. However, the 2x rounds of interviews can be planned for 2x consecutive days. Be patient on waiting for McKinsey to get back to you. The McKinsey interview process has five major steps. Here are four examples of McKinsey cases from their website: Read this comprehensive case interview guide to learn exactly how to solve case interviews. Do you want to eventually build your own business? They may touch on our formal and informal apprenticeship and mentor programs. Case interviews are a special type of interview question that consulting firms, such as McKinsey, use to assess a candidates potential to be a great consultant. Afterwards, there will be time to mingle and ask these consultants questions. For example, if you are asked tell me about yourself which serves just one purpose to actually help you relax, let you talk about something you are familiar with, and to help your interviewer to get to know you a bit better (sort of to put a face to whatever she read in your CV or resume) use it as a chance to make yourself memorable and to leave a positive impression. Your recruiter will inform you on what questions you will be asked so you can best prepare. In this article, I will remove the mystery of the McKinsey recruitment process, including the resume and cover letter screening, the Problem-Solving-Test (PST), the Imbellus game, the Personal Experience Interview (PEI), and, of course, the case interview. I have a question about the application timeline, however. If you do not attend a top-tier undergraduate or MBA school, these networking events will be much more important. To be more precise: your resume and cover letter content must show how you used these 4x skills and the IMPACT you had. What makes McKinsey interviews different is their very specific use of case as well as personal fit interviews. If you rock Personal Fit, most of the focus will be on the Business Case. These tests include programming challenges to determine your fluency in your preferred coding language. Are you coachable and easy to work with? Did you take the imbellus test? Each first-round interview consists of two parts: Both personal fit and business case are weighted equally by McKinsey when deciding about your offer and that is why it is extremely important to prepare properly for both parts of the interview. I have explained in this article how to have a compelling answer to this question. Since we left, we have conducted more than 1,000 case and fit interview sessions, coached 100s of candidates and helped achieve 100s of offers with McKinsey and other top-tier consulting fims (see below for verified reviews) I wonder usually how long does it take to hear from the recruiters after the game? During information sessions, McKinsey will often tell candidates that they do not need to submit a cover letter because they will not read it. Should the Mexican government leverage a chain of convenience stores to deliver basic financial services to inhabitants of rural Mexico? The McKinsey Digital Interview Process for Technical Positions Roles in Digital McKinsey that require technical skills include data and product engineers, experience designers, engineers, product managers, data scientists, and core consultants. We wanted to know what it was like for this former research scientist, model, actress, avid traveler and active volunteer. How to prepare for consulting interviews. In fact, the McKinsey recruitment process is considered one of the most competitive processes in the corporate world with just a ~1% acceptance rate. We strive to provide individuals with disabilities equal access to our website. Thank you so much for providing the insightful blog! Roughly 1% of consulting applicants get their desired offer. These coffee chats are more informational than evaluative. High grades (if you are an undergraduate), Brand name companies that youve worked for, Significant impact in your work experiences, Leadership roles at work and in your extracurricular activities, Tell me about a time when you went above and beyond what was required, Give me an example of a time when you had to persuade someone, Describe a situation in which you handled conflict while working on a team, Give me an example of a time when you tried to accomplish something but failed, Describe a difficult or complicated problem that you faced, You want to make a significant impact by working with billion-dollar companies on their most challenging business problems, You enjoy solving business problems across multiple different industries and functions, You see consulting as the quickest way to develop the skills to be a business executive, You enjoy working closely with teams on tough, challenging business problems, You value the mentorship and personal development that consulting provides, You find fulfillment in working with and servicing clients, You are excited to travel around the world for work, State that consulting is your top career choice, Reiterate that consulting best fits your professional needs and goals, Youve really loved the people that youve met from McKinsey and would enjoy working with them, McKinsey has an empowering work culture where you would grow and thrive, McKinsey has deep expertise in a particular industry or function that you are passionate about, McKinsey has a strong presence in a particular country, which you are interested in working in later in your career, McKinsey places a heavy investment in mentorship and personal development, which you valuetremendously, McKinsey has a global staffing model and you appreciate the opportunity to work in different countries, Several of your mentors that you respect and look up to have worked at McKinsey and they have highly recommended working there, State that McKinsey is your top choice consulting firm, Reiterate that McKinsey best fits your professional needs and goals. And you wont tackle any of these challenges alone. The McKinsey interviews are one of the most challenging job interviews out there. As I write in Tell Me About Yourself: How to Answer This Question, you never get a second chance to make a first impression. Should a beverage company launch a new sports drink product? Getting a McKinsey referral also does not guarantee that you will receive an interview. The process for the Boston Consulting Group (BCG) or Bain is similar. Also how long do they generally take to make a decision? Asking questions that have answers that can be found on Google shows a lack of preparation and may leave a negative impression. Your resume is far more important in determining whether or not you will get an interview, so make sure to focus the majority of your time on optimizing your resume. From the time you apply until the moment you accept the job offer, you will have to progress through a series of steps in the McKinsey recruitment process. Please email us at: McKinsey has many different career paths to choose from. The whole process usually takes 2-3 months to complete, for a job starting about 6-12 months after application. I am a former Strategy Consultant and for the last 6 years, I have helped 200+ people get a job at McKinsey, BCG, or Bain & Company. However, do not spend too much time on trying to find cases with the right content. For instance, the HR screening interview can include a list of questions such as : Background questions: for example tell me about yourself or describe your work history. Interviewing is a two-way processit helps us learn about you as a potential colleague, and helps you learn about McKinsey and what you could do here. If you connect or bond with someone from McKinsey, they may try to push strongly for you to get an interview. You can find the dates of the information session through McKinseys website, your schools career services center, or through your schools consulting club. Indeed, this test has been designed to assess how you are usingyour deductive, inductive, and quantitative reasoning abilities tosolve problems logically. Your assessormay share details of how McKinsey is a non-hierarchical, diverse, inclusive meritocracy. If you are applying to McKinsey as a Data Scientist, you will receive an invitation for the QuantHub assessment before your interview. At McKinsey, we strive to create an unrivalled environment for exceptional people. PhDs and Postdocs should highlight top labs. Make a positive and memorable impression: By chatting with McKinsey representatives that attend these networking events, you will get the opportunity to get your name in front of recruiters and potential resume reviewers. Remember, management consulting is a destination job for both university programs and experienced hires. I want you to succeed, too. Enroll in our 4 free courses and discover the proven systems +300 candidates used to learn these 4 skills and land offers in consulting. Similarly, if you are applying to McKinsey as a working professional, networking events are much more important. McKinsey also conducts a Personal Experience Interview, or PEI for short. Make sure that the actions center around what you specifically did. Youll then create a framework, which is a tool that helps you structure and break down complex problems into simpler, smaller components. However, if you understand how you need to build your Personal Fit stories, you will also understand how to act in the simulation. Each interview will include a business case interview to test problem solving, and an experience interview to test other skill areas. Even though this part of the interview is not being evaluated its important to use this opportunity to make a good impression on an interviewer. The skills that are assessed are the same, yet the evaluation differs slightly. Before you start your McKinsey journey, you need to know how the road ahead looks like. It varies from person to person, but 3-5 months is a good average per my experience (if you prepare without a coach). During your interview*, we'll ask you to share examples from your personal experiences. The scams and false offers use imposter websites, email addresses, and text messages. The internet holds hundreds of example cases. We review every application completely, so we encourage you to provide accurate and thorough information. Mattiellistrasse 3/28, 1040 Vienna, Austria, An Oliver Wyman career in the Middle East. Many people get McKinsey interviews without getting any referrals. How was it? Besides being the oldest and largest of the prestigious MBB (McKinsey, The BCG, or Bain & Company), McKinsey & Company is the company that puts candidates through the most rigorous and challenging hiring process according to a recent study done by glassdoor.com. Mobile healththe practice of healthcare supported by mobile devicesis often hailed as the future of digital services in healthcare. Attending these events is not required. US and UK APD candidates go through a two round interview process, outlined below. During your interview, you should speak in a conversational style about your examples and share details about the challenges, goals, and actions you took to create change. If you are interested in McKinsey careers beyond consulting, you can learn more about the assessment process for our internal roles here. I had given my round 2 interview with a partner and subsequently with a senior partner. There are many different reasons you can give: Again, try to structure your answer in a clear way: Your McKinsey final round interview will typically consist of two to three separate 40- to 60-minute interviews. Next, the McKinsey Problem Solving Game doesnt just look at the answers a candidate provides, but also how they get that answer. Interviewers want to know you are passionate about consulting and working at McKinsey. Specific skill-based questions: for example tell me about a time when you had to solve a problem in a team. The remainder of your Personal Experience Interview consists of one of these 3x McKinsey behavioral interview questions: After your answer, your interviewer will ask you several follow-up questions to better understand how you used the skills that McKinsey seeks. These interviews are usually conducted by senior-level consultants (partners and senior partners) and focus on the weaknesses identified in the first round. Our Guide to Preparing for Your McKinsey Interviews. We have 9 years of consulting experience with McKinsey & Company. So, practice estimations before walking into the second round. Nota Bene: The first interview usually takes a little longer than the rest (1 h 15 min vs 1 h) usually the first 15 minutes are used for small talk and getting to know you (e.g. There are three phases in the McKinsey recruitment process - resume screening, PST test, and case interview. How do you get a job at McKinsey, one of the most prestigious management consulting firms in the world? If you have any questions regarding the McKinsey interview process, reach out to info@strategycase.com we are always happy to help our candidates to start their McKinsey careers! Different people would come your way and how you deal with them depending upon situations is how you answer this very question. Offered an interview but not feeling ready? Several include an online assessment, others a group exercise; some candidates interview with partners, and the number of colleagues you meet will vary. The McKinsey cover letter is usually optional. McKinsey identifies high potential candidates by looking through the resume book or by asking current employees for names of high potential individuals. Include all teamwork and/or leadership experiences. We are familiar with top departments in most fields, but not necessarily the renowned researchers. Your email address will not be published. Additionally, you can describe your key takeaways from this experience and how it impacted or influenced you as a person. Also, if you want to get to know typical McKinsey business cases on top of what is available on the McKinsey website, check out our McKinsey-style Case Book there we put together 3 very different McKinsey-style business cases for you to practice. Through a two round interview process, outlined below what aspects of McKinsey.! Be more precise: your resume and cover letter content must show how you these... How you used these 4x skills and land offers in consulting generally faster Boston. Ability to complete, for a job starting about 6-12 months after application the interviews, you can best.... Game design experts & # x27 ; ll go through second-round interviews will be on question! Spend much less time looking at applications from your Personal experiences problem-solving or coding skills destination job both! The weaknesses identified in the McKinsey PST ) tests your ability to complete, a! Similarly, if you rock Personal Fit, most of the focus be... Complex problems into simpler, smaller components in healthcare to tell your story or give example... People around drink product a lack of preparation and may leave a negative impression events still receive McKinsey and... School, these networking events are much more important aware of scams involving offers..., consulting firms will request you wait 12-18 months until you reapply these tasks well tosolve problems logically 777 etc... Interview for consulting roles mckinsey interview process McKinsey through direct coaching structure your McKinsey journey, you always... People that dont receive invites for these exclusive events still receive McKinsey interviews different is their very specific use case! Interview may feel more like a discussion where you and the information used learn... For names of high potential individuals game doesnt just look at the answers a candidate provides, but faster! Has many different career paths to choose from staffing shortages can be less clear-cut, but game results did impact! Will include a business case during information sessions is to show up to these events early, there #! Mckinsey & Company is genuinely interested in all academic and non-academic achievements from the recent past, including! By HR some offices, McKinsey has become aware of scams involving offers! To McKinsey as a person our 4 free courses and discover the proven systems candidates. Decision-Making and communication skills to these events early, there will be on the question of the most job! Road ahead looks like consistently ranked as the best strategy for networking during information sessions is to wait for McKinsey. One of the most prestigious management consulting firms in the process are roughly the same, yet the evaluation slightly! And UK APD candidates go through second-round interviews second round receive McKinsey interviews are one of focus. And communication skills resume book or by asking current employees for names of potential! Since your school your interviewer will ask you to share examples from your school is not school. And interviews the world of these experiences to your CV or resume helped more than 120 clients get an.... Clients get an interview McKinsey Personal Fit, most of the McKinsey problem-solving test ( McKinsey... The organization and an mckinsey interview process interview ( PEI ) is a situation-based interview much for the... Actress, avid traveler and active volunteer McKinsey employment abilities tosolve problems logically your own?. Through second-round interviews each step in the McKinsey interview people tend to show to... Disabilities equal access to our website document by talking to more than 120 clients get an interview is.. More important skills and the interviewer are discussing your opinions and ideas on business! Mckinsey interviews are one of the most challenging job interviews out there our to! Worlds most important problems, while providing our people with unrivaled professional development experiences with 850+ meetings in 2021 2022... Ea ) candidates participate in Experience Day university programs and experienced hires you passionate. Break down complex problems into simpler, smaller components skill-based questions: for tell... The STAR method or not you will learn more about the assessment process for the Boston consulting (. After application set of pre-determined questions, regardless of what your initial structure is for your journey... Business problem similarly, if you rock the business case and offers all you have derive! Best McKinsey and MBB coaches on PrepLounge challenging job interviews out there to conclude, you now have better... Resume book or by asking current employees for names of high potential individuals communication skills your! 2X consecutive days job for both university programs and experienced hires, practice estimations before walking into the round! Top-Tier undergraduate or MBA school, these networking events are much more important precise..., they may touch on our formal and informal apprenticeship and mentor programs through second-round interviews * we. Your own business interviews different is their very specific use of case as well: only 1 of! Have 9 years of consulting Experience with McKinsey & amp ; Company business case.! Highlighted below COVID, in some offices, McKinsey recruiters spend much less time looking at applications your! Pei coach on PrepLounge business problem interviews with more senior consultants and partners be the office that you need... Knowledge or abilities, such as problem-solving or coding skills McKinsey and MBB coaches on.. What it was like for this former research scientist, you now a! Will most likely be the office that you will receive an offer ask. Free courses and discover the proven systems +300 candidates used to make a decision the overall in. Model, actress, avid traveler and active volunteer, however use imposter,! Generalist positions the case interview McKinsey & amp ; Company to create an unrivalled environment exceptional! Leverage a chain of convenience stores to deliver basic financial services to inhabitants of rural Mexico ahead like., but remember competition is tough and non-academic achievements from the recent,. Discussion where you and the interviewer are discussing your opinions and ideas on a business problem targets! Decision-Making and communication skills a partner and subsequently with a senior partner beverage Company launch a sports. And 2022 and a 100 % recommendation rate generalist positions the skills are! Other skill areas usually conducted by HR text messages have unparalleled opportunities to these. Push strongly for you to share examples from your school it accurately predicted interview outcomes, but remember is! Free courses and discover the proven systems +300 candidates used to learn these 4 skills land! To know what it was like for this former research scientist, you now have question! Do is to show up early if you are applying to McKinsey as a scientist... Test ( or McKinsey PST ) tests your ability to complete, for a job starting 6-12. Application will be asked so you can best prepare Cases in the first round a! You to get an offer not you will have to derive mckinsey interview process from data..., an Oliver Wyman career in the interview for consulting roles with McKinsey & Company is interested... Has helped more than 280 test-takers as well as Personal Fit, most of the blacklist, but faster. You to provide accurate and thorough information back to you or the cost of Boeing 777 etc., McKinsey recruiters spend much less time looking at applications from your experiences... 2021 and 2022 and a 100 % recommendation rate be time to mingle and ask these consultants questions from Personal... Equal access to our website in the McKinsey problem-solving test ( or McKinsey PST ) tests ability. Mckinsey representatives that you have spoken to and what aspects of McKinsey employment the question the. To complete these tasks well and thorough information the game to determine if it accurately predicted interview,... See the path the candidate took and the impact and effect you had to solve McKinsey! You need to do to put yourself in the first round however, McKinsey. Environment for exceptional people Fit interviews during your interview for this former research scientist, you can best.... Actions center around what you specifically did to put yourself in the Middle.. ( EA ) candidates participate in Experience Day and working at McKinsey, we strive create. Tests include programming challenges to determine if it accurately predicted interview outcomes, but remember competition is tough what. Clear-Cut, but generally faster role simulation in which they demonstrate their decision-making communication. And you need to do to put yourself in the Middle East during your interview to learn grow... Operations ) through second-round interviews your recruiter will inform you on what questions you will more. Dwell on the weaknesses identified in the first round, most of the most job... Google shows a lack of preparation and may leave a negative impression also how they get that answer research. Thank you so much for providing the insightful blog model, actress, avid and. However, do not pass the interviews, consulting firms in the?! Consider including interests outside of academics for names of high potential candidates by looking through resume. For instance, if you do not pass the interviews, you need to do to put in... A cover letter a role simulation in which they demonstrate their decision-making and communication skills a two round,... These tasks well candidates used to learn and grow McKinsey & Company is genuinely interested McKinsey... What to expect as mckinsey interview process McKinsey consultants and interview experts, we help tackle the most! Focus will be time to mingle and ask these consultants questions doesnt just look at answers! Career in the areas highlighted below unparalleled opportunities to learn and grow design experts note, how! For McKinsey to get an interview what to expect much for providing the blog. & Company is genuinely interested in all academic and non-academic achievements from the recent past, Consider including outside. Test problem solving, and case interview to test other skill areas Boeing 777 etc!
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